A World at War with Itself
The podcast will be for a year, where Julie Finch-Scally, writer and broadcaster can interview people about life and the current situation of the world. She will discuss how so many things have changed over the past 80 years since her birth, and what the world needs to change to improve and save the planet from ourselves.
A World at War with Itself
Patriotism
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We can all be patriotic, especially with things like the Olympic games or World Cups. But there can be a bad side to patriotism. Find out what other people think in this episode.
Hello again, Julie Fidgiskelli with another episode of A World of War With Itself. As I said at the end of last week's broadcast, today we start a new category. It is called Nations, and it covers many subjects that relate to countries of the world. The more I thought about this category, I realized there were four subjects of which there wasn't an expert. The subjects are those where many people have different opinions. Only one answer to this problem: talk to several people and see what they have to say on the subject. I am thrilled to begin this category by talking about patriotism. Six people contributed to the discussion. Tristan, Stuart, and Tim, as well as Mary, Sharon, and Gabe. Each person answered the same three questions, and this was the first one. Australia is a multicultural country, except for our First Nation residents. Everyone here has been either born or has parents or ancestors from overseas. Do you think people can be patriotic about more than one country?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Especially if you're born overseas and migrated here, there's nothing wrong with being proud of your home country as well as being proud of Australia as well.
SPEAKER_02No, I don't believe that. And in fact, I don't think Australia is as patriotic as they could be and should be. Yeah, we've got a lot to learn. I'm sixth generation Australian and very proud of that. My children are are seventh and my grandchildren are eighth. And I think we've got a lot to offer Australia, but I don't think we're as patriotic as we could be. As a younger boy, there was a f Australian flag flying in my parents' front garden that I would put the flag up every day, and because I was in Cubs or Scouts or Cadets, I'd salute that flag and proudly bring it in at night. I don't think there are too many young people thinking that way now, and I think we've lost that sort of attitude.
SPEAKER_04I certainly do believe that they can we just have to look at the current World Cup and people might have their Australian team and then they have a team of their ancestry or a team that their father came out here working on the Snowy Mountains and he was from Switzerland. And they feel very patriotic. But there is an order to it, and I think people who've lived here a long time, they do have a sense of patriotism for Australia, but there's also room to be patriotic for another country.
SPEAKER_03Yes, I think they definitely can be more patriotic for more than one country, yes. I think we often have people with dual p passports and clearly they're supporting both their countries, so yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I do. I think people can be patriotic about this country and if they came from another country like Greece or somewhere else, they can also be patriotic about their original country. Because they're proud of their heritage right through from their ancestors to now.
SPEAKER_05I probably don't have the same view of patriotism per se as many people. I'm not convinced patriotism in its entirety is a good thing. I believe people can have ties to more than one country. I I uh do have reservations as to whether people with strong links to one country can have as strong links to another country. And I think that there are cases playing out in the world at the moment that prove that that can be a problem. So I suppose yes, uh a person can have ties to two countries, but they will have a problem if the countries are in conflict. Even if the countries are philosophically at odds with one another, it will lead to a diminution of the regard they have for one or other of the countries. I feel that's inevitable. So probably I suppose in a nutshell the answer would be probably not to completely, but I don't know if it's a bad thing.
SPEAKER_06My second question some people use patriotism as a way of rejecting people from other places. What are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_05Well, I think patriotism is a a a bit of a cloak for scoundrels sometimes. It's exploited and it is perverted by people who want to rile up one group to dislike another. So yes, absolutely I do believe that people use it to exclude as much as they use it to include.
SPEAKER_03I don't really like that at all. I just think that we live in one world, one global world, and irrespective of what country that you're in or come from, that it's important not to fall into that sort of mindset of rejecting people just purely from where they're from.
SPEAKER_04I can see where that might happen if there's been conflicts between countries, for instance, and the the people that represent certain flags in certain countries, they want to exclude those because they've been at war with their country several hundred years ago, maybe, or only recently. But I don't think there's any room for exclusion in a multicultural Australia because we're all in it together. We all rely so heavily on other cultures and other cultural influences having grown up here. So it's the food and it's culture and traditions have seeped in all through the Australian fabric. So I don't think we can ever use patriotism as any excuse to exclude others.
SPEAKER_00I don't think that's patriotism. If you want to come here and be a part of a community and society, I am happy to welcome anyone who is of that opinion.
SPEAKER_01I don't think people should be excluded because they have a proud heritage.
SPEAKER_02I don't think patriotism decides that people do come here. If someone comes from overseas to live here, they should become a patriot of Australia, not of their home. They can have lovely thoughts and and attitudes of their home country, but I d think too many people coming to Australia now are using our place to live in, but still like their country more. Their home country more.
SPEAKER_06And the final question. What do you think would be the best way to encourage patriotism?
SPEAKER_04Australian patriotism or any country. I think sport does it. Sport's very sport because it is a tribalism in a way and it's a sense of belonging. I'm not fussed on the idea of the draping yourself in the flag because I think it's an extreme form of it. I don't mind people flying a flag on Australia Day or whatever day they choose, or the indigenous flag or the pride flag. I think they've all got their place. But patriotism there is a risk that it can turn to nationalism which is exclusive, not inclusive. I think sport's a great way. When we go to the Olympics, look how patriotic we are there. That's a lovely, gentle, inclusive way to be patriotic.
SPEAKER_00I think to encourage patriotism, you should be a country that people want to be patriotic about. I mean if you have good resources, good community, good government, then that encourages the people to be a part of that well-organized, well-acting community.
SPEAKER_03I think uh you need to ask why you're trying to encourage patriotism in the first place and what you're wanting to get out of that. Is it something to do with economics of the country or sustainability? Or are we in conflict with another country for some reason? You know, why are we trying to encourage patriotism is what I would be asking, first of all. How do we do that? Well then you're wanting to look at something that is going to inspire people from the heart. I guess for Nelson Mandela, the sport and Australia is a very sporting country. The country always comes together with sport, like the soccer is and so forth. Music is another way, and then the arts and theatre can just go on and on and on. It just depends on why, in that particular stance, why you're asking for patriotism.
SPEAKER_02One flag Australia, just like America. America's so proud of their f flag. I don't think we are proud of our flag. In fact, there are a lot of people that want to get rid of the flag, a flag. I find it a little bit disappointing to see on TV when someone's talking about Australia to see three flags behind them. I don't think that's doing us any justice at all. I'm not putting down any culture, but I think we should have one flag, and I'm a an advocate of one flag Australia.
SPEAKER_05I would like to see more encouragement of community. I think if you encourage connection to community, if you make people strongly engaged in and strongly working towards cohesiveness in their own community, then patriotism will follow. But uh if you live within a community that is strong and supportive, that looks after the vulnerable, that uh encourages the strong to look after those with less strength, then automatically if the larger unit that you live within is under threat, you will rise to protect it. So I don't see any need to overtly encourage patriotism uh as it's described. I find waving a flag at a sporting event ridiculous, to be honest. I think that American children are brainwashed as badly as North Korean children into believing that their country right or wrong. I don't like that view of patriotism where people are encouraged to associate strongly with a flag or sporting prowess but neglect their own communities. I would like to see community as as the building block. And then patriotism follows.
SPEAKER_06And that's it for this week's episode of A World at War with Itself. My thanks to Gabe, Mary, Sharon, and Stuart, also Tim and Tristan. I do hope you found their answers thought provoking. Until next Wednesday, this is Julie Finch Skally from A World at War With Itself, hoping you would join me then.