A World at War with Itself
The podcast will be for a year, where Julie Finch-Scally, writer and broadcaster can interview people about life and the current situation of the world. She will discuss how so many things have changed over the past 80 years since her birth, and what the world needs to change to improve and save the planet from ourselves.
A World at War with Itself
Firearms
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Many people use Firearms, farmers, hunters, they are even used in the winter Olympics. But Firearms have a bad name. Why? Julie talks with the President of the ACT and Snowy Mountains branch of the Australian Deer Association to find out.
Hi there, Julie Finch Scalli with you once again for a world of war with itself. Thank you for joining me today. At the moment we are discussing things that are a part of our lives but somehow have become a negative subject. Today, Phoebe Ud, the president of the ACT and Snowy Mountains branch of the Australian Deer Association, is going to discuss one of these subjects, firearms. Welcome, Phoebe. Lovely to have you here. Thanks for having me, Julie. Although I've titled this episode as Firearms, would I be correct in thinking that muskets and cannons were the first items that used such things as gunpowder? And since then we have moved on to bullets to upgraded firearms. I think that'd be a fair assessment, yeah. Well at least I know we're coming from. And did firearms take over from bows and arrows?
SPEAKER_01No, definitely not. The uh the bows are still very much a part of the fabric.
SPEAKER_00That's interesting. I would never have thought that would have been the case. I mean I know people use them still as as a a skill, but I didn't think that they'd still be part of a using in in the field. Now, there's a skill in shooting an arrow, so that it can hit the mark. And that same could be said of firearms. Is this how shooting became a sport, not a product of war?
SPEAKER_01I would say yes. Yeah, absolutely. There is a lot of skill. It's definitely not a case of simply pick it up and put it into your shoulder and just shoot it. It requires hand-eye coordination, technique, a lot of skill, body awareness.
SPEAKER_00So there's lots involved making sure that you're can hit whatever it is you're aiming for. That's right. You're the president of a branch of the Australian Deer Association. What exactly does that organisation do?
SPEAKER_01Well, Julie, the Australian Deer Association is a not-for-profit member-based organisation. It was established back in 1969 and it advocates for evidence-based approaches to wild deer management. They also campaign for public land access for recreational deer hunting specifically. And what some of the uh sub-activities are that they actively do is provide local hunter education, deer management. We do a lot of community engagement as well, more so in the local region. We've been at the National Multicultural Festival for the last couple of years with a venison stall. Australian Deer Association also does a lot of research into deer because it is an introduced species in Australia. And we're also very active in conservation activities as well. The South Australian branches were involved with some Malifowl conservation activities down there in South Australia. So and given that shooting and more specifically hunting is part of Australia's historical fabric, I think it's fantastic that the Australian Deer Association continues to exist and there's a community of people out there that are still willing to keep carrying it on into the future.
SPEAKER_00So how bad is the shall we call it an infestation of deer? I don't see them, but I have heard that there are great numbers of them out there, not only in the bush but out in the fields where their agriculture is.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they can provide a really interesting dynamic for all farmers really, depending on what they're running. So the deer will come in like any animal to find food, water, and of course that then takes away from farmers' crops and livestock. So they are a problem that should be managed and is being managed. It's the way that it's being managed and where the deer association can really provide some helpful contributions to farmers.
SPEAKER_00What sort of implements and what firearms do they use when they're going out hunting deer?
SPEAKER_01Is it mainly a rifle or Yeah, yeah, it's more so the rifles. We have different calibers and we use calibers that are effective in that the animal is harvested ethically. And what I mean by that is with the least amount of suffering. Our goal is to ensure that that animal, when its l life ends, up until that point, it has been living its best life. And there is no suffering.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01When when when we harvest it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I know what you mean, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I mean that in the most kindest way. And we also honour that animal by taking that animal and using as much of it as what we possibly can. So we eat them and yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well it's good that the animals used. You hear about I'm gonna say kangaroos now because that's what they do with kangaroos. They just leave them sometimes in the bush or wherever, which I think is sacrilege, basically.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's terrible. What it actually does is by shooting them and leaving them, it means that then becomes a food source for other pest species such as dogs, pigs. They're they're big issues as well in Australia. It becomes a food source for them and as the decomposing flies um during rain, it goes in waterways and other bits and pieces. It's just, yeah, really uncool.
SPEAKER_00We have rules in Australia that are stricter than some other countries in regards to firearms. Do you have to have a license to have a firearm? And what are the rules about having them in your home?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, two really good questions. The first one, yes, yes, you absolutely have to have a firearms license in order to own a firearm. In fact, depending on where you are in Australia, there are additional licenses that you have to have in order to be able to access public land. So one to two permits or licenses is the minimum. So the storage restrictions, so keeping them in our home, the storage restrictions are very, very tight. So there's a number of different facets, and I'll try to keep it as simple as possible. All firearms must be secured in a locked container. That container has to be secured. The weight of the container makes a difference as well. So if you were to have a gun safe that is under a certain weight, it has to be bolted into a floor, so physically secured to a structure. With bigger gun safes over a certain weight, and look, they are heavy. Um they don't necessarily have to be secured. But yeah, the guns have to be secured in a gun safe that that has regulations, and then only one person can access that safe. Those keys have to be stored separately. Guns and ammunition, all the the firearms and the ammunition have to be stored separately, they have to be locked. So there's a real process to actually not only storing, but also accessing them. And that has been the way since I began shooting a decade ago.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so it always amuses me when you see some of those murder mysteries on TV and someone's got a gun in a drawer which is easily accessible by everybody, you know, and you think, why would they do that?
SPEAKER_01But yes, Australia uh globally has top five toughest gun laws or firearms regulations globally. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Is there an age limit at all on getting a license? So I mean young or old.
SPEAKER_01Yes, there are regulations for uh junior permits. And it again it depends on which state you go to as to whether or not a junior can handle a firearm. The age of 14 comes to mind, and I've got a funny feeling that that might be in South Australia. But here in ACT, I've got a feeling that it might be 18. And what about older people? In what way?
SPEAKER_00Well, when you get to 80 or 90, do people sort of say no you can't have a gun license?
SPEAKER_01Not that I've heard of. The litmus test whether or not someone is fit to own a firearms license is what they call the fit and proper person assessment. So the regulation and the regulations around that, it's about the risk assessment. So an individual is looked at in terms of their the whole person, they're looked at in terms of their physical capability, their their mental capacity as well. And then that's all taken into consideration.
SPEAKER_00Is that a doctor that assesses that or the police or what?
SPEAKER_01So depending on the individual's circumstances, uh a person might have a letter written. If they've had an episode or they've had a mental health issue in previous years, sometimes people might be asked to provide a letter. Yeah. It's called a risk assessment for a reason and fit and proper person. That's what they're looking for. That's what they're looking for. Yeah, that's what they're looking for.
SPEAKER_00And do anybody has to have an eye test even when they get to a certain age? Because you do when you have to drive a car, you've got to have an eye test as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. We're pretty lucky as firearms owners, we have really good optics and it comes down to safety, really. And you can still shoot with glasses. Like I said, there are optics as well, so sites that people can upgrade. There are many different qualities of optics that people can put on their firearms. So it really comes down to it like safety, and firearms owners are acutely aware of safety. Everything is about that. And I'd like to think that a fit and proper person who takes safety into consideration would be able to make that assessment for themselves as to whether it's the right time to give up. Well, not necessarily give up, but stop doing it or enjoy it in another way.
SPEAKER_00Look, shooting is part of the Olympic Games, both winter and summer events. Winter events seem to include rifle shooting when they're doing a cross country with skiing. And do they have a similar event like that with running or or something with the Summer Olympics? Or is it just plain being shooting at a mark?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't think there's any running or anything along those lines. I do know that there is the the clay target genres and there's many of them. I'm happy to be corrected though. I don't I'm not aware of any of the the running similar to the Winter Olympics, so And where would people go to practice their shooting?
SPEAKER_00Surely they're not allowed to go out in the field and go bang, bang, bang.
SPEAKER_01So most people will go to the ranges, so you'll find firearms or gun ranges all around the country. People will go there and sight in their firearm, which is an important part of being a firearm owner, is actually making sure that your equipment is set up properly. Landowners have a designated area on their property. Well, for them to practice. For them to practice, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And they they have it all set up, all proper. Again, safety, number one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, not my main thing. The ability to hit a bullseye is something, can you be born with it or does practice help you improve?
SPEAKER_01Oh look, sometimes you find those people that are just naturally gifted, but is definitely something that can be learnt. There's a reason that there's coaches and all that sort of stuff. I mean, you look at the Olympic team, they have their coaches, they're constantly practicing. So I think that's a good demonstration of the ability to learn and improve.
SPEAKER_00Most hobbies and sports cost money. How much would this hobby cost?
SPEAKER_01This hobby is it is expensive, uh especially with the setup. I'm not going to hazard a guess. All I'm going to say is it's the difference is one of having an interest versus having a passion. So if you have a passion for shooting and firearms, you're going to be spending a lot of money. The firearms industry is a billion-dollar industry. Everything we do, we pay for in some way, shape, or form. A lot of money and time has gone into it. And if there's one thing that I've learnt, Julie, is that time is not a renewable resource. And when you consider that and I only know a handful of people that have probably spent up to probably more I'm gonna say $100,000 simply on their firearms alone. That's a lot of money. It has taken time for them to to follow their passion.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, to upgrade regularly or do they just use the same implement that they first purchased?
SPEAKER_01As a beginner, generally my recommendation to people when they first start is look, get something that's that's half decent that you could sell again if you decided that it's not for you. Having said that, there's also the safe and all the the ammunition and other bits and pieces that you need to spend money on. Those people like m my husband and I, for example, we we want our firearms to be hand-me-downs. So we want our firearms to be something that we can hand down to our children over the generations. So there are people out there that have firearms that have been handed down generation to generation in their family, and there are those firearms that are no longer being made. And now firearms owners are being restricted in terms of how many firearms they can own, which means those firearms that have been handed down through families over all that time may never exist again. It's exceptionally full of it.
SPEAKER_00I would never have thought that it would have been a hand-me-down, but yeah, they are a hundredfold in it.
SPEAKER_01Yep. And that's especially is is true for people who have a passion for the sport of shooting.
SPEAKER_00Do they have museums where they can donate it to so that people still can see those original firearms? I'm unsure. I am really unsure. Can you recommend firearms and the the sport of shooting as a good hobby? Or would most people use their firearms more for the eradication of pests?
SPEAKER_01Shooting is such a diverse sport. Yeah, anyone can do it. Everyone can do it. I started off shooting several decades ago as a result of my work and I only started shooting as a sport uh ten years ago, and I absolutely love getting out on the range. I love going out in the bush. There are just so many benefits to it that yeah. I affectionately call it recoil therapy. There's just something really different about it. But it requires focus, it requires, like I said to you before, body awareness, hand-eye coordination, patience, discipline. So many, so many things. Thank you, Phoebe.
SPEAKER_00That's been most enlightening because there's lots of things I would never ever have considered. I hope my listeners have found it just as fascinating. Thank you for coming in and for filling in on all those details. And that's it this week for a world at war with itself. Please join me next week for another episode. Until then, thanks for listening.